Aprilia V-twin crank to run ignition problems on Code 3.830

[Norzilla]

Hi

I have been having trouble getting my Aprilia V-twin to run after renewing the broken sprag clutch and a failing VR senor on the crank.

Have Mircosquirt V2 controller.

I have now upgraded the Microsquirt code to 3.830 and now nothing works. Well I have managed to get it to fire badly on cranking but it won't transition from crank to run.

The engine is a 60deg V-twin Aprilia RSV Mille engine. Please see diagram of trigger arrangements , current msq and datalog

Any help very very welcome. thx

[Matt Cramer]

Do you have any data logs of a successful start on previous firmware that could be used for comparison?

[Norzilla]

Hi matt ,
The only datalogs I now have are what I have posted on the forum as my laptop died and I lost all my old msqs and datalogs
Sorry
John

[24c]

Hi John,

How old are we looking at? You sent me some ages ago, but going back to your problem, have you tried pulling the plugs and and doing a cranking datalog? Possibly killing the fuel, and doing sparking test? maybe using a strobe and just heckling the ignition is where it should be. I haven't got a V twin, so I have no idea how to work it out...so I think I'd cheat, pop the plugs out, lower the cranking rpm to just less than starter speeds, and just check everything was happening in the right place first.

If that pans out, it'll just be a fuelling issue, and maybe a little tweak of the throttle (let a little more air in or not on the settings you are using at the moment) might just get you closer to cold start to hot idling.

Anyway, before you do this, there is something here that describes the revisions between the codes.

Good luck,
Mike

[Norzilla]

Hi Mike,

These datalogs and msq were taken the day I posted them. I have not tested the things you suggest as the bike is currently 1500km away at my parents place and so I only get short burst to work on getting it started and resolving the issues.

I need to get it running over there so I can get it registered in Australia before moving it interstate to Sydney.

Anyway I have managed to recover a few files from my corrupted hard drive today from just before the bike was shipped from the UK 18mths ago.

I think even then on the old code there was an issue, 3-4k max revs before it would breakdown and badly misfire. I had just replaced the Crank VR sensor with a new replacement and thought it was a resistor issue in the VR line as I had in the early days, so with no time to fix before shipping I just left it until it got to Australia. Now in Australia I checked the resistance with a variable resistor in the line and the 10k Ohm resistor I had in the line was the correct one as it gave the best result but still would not run past 6-7k ( that was on the old code before updating ... silly me thought new code would help....daaa... )

Anyway after loading new code I now have a whole new set of problems and symptoms and the bike now won't start at all and all the setting look different so now I am lost.

I have attached the old msq, it was for code 3.760

NB: The reason why I changed the VR sensor was I was getting an issue with high RPM loss of sync as soon as I rolled off throttle at the redline of about 10k rpm , the bike would develop a massive misfire , like fuel strave, but I could manage to just keep the engine running by playing the throttle until it would come good, some 30 sec later. Someone had suggested that the issue might have been a failed sensor, after replacing the sensor the bike would start much better, but had then develop this rev limit issue which what lead me to the current position..

NBB: I am almost at the point with Microsquirt and V-twins that I am going to convert it to carbs and be done with it all, I have run out of time and patience and just want to ride the bike I built 5 years ago.

Cheers
John

[24c]

Hi again John,

Had a quick look at the msqs, and their settings are identical, as far as I can tell.
Also there were no major changes between the 3.760 & 3.780 msqs that you posted and the 3.830 version in the change log here

So it looks like, you have a faulty set up on the bike. Something else has changed or got disturbed since it was last running.
Ideally, you just need to check the basics, and double check your getting sync etc by datalogging the events/attempts.
OK, 1500kms is hardly round the corner, so you've just got to work smarter!

Mike

Re the NBB, the problem is something simple, and changing back to carbs etc is more work, especially as you are so far down the line with injection & ignition, plus you had it running before. I know it's hard, but take a deep breath, and try not to get frustrated. Most of us have been there too.

[24c]

John,

I just upgraded my 3.76 code to 3.83 and I got unstable RPM detection with loads of resets. There was no wiring changes made, no sensor or wheel changes, I just boot loaded the new firmware into the v3 MicroSquirt.
It turned out the Ignition Capture Setting that worked OK as Rising Edge, now needed Falling Edge in 3.830

Don't know if this is of any use, just an observation.

Mike

[Norzilla]

Hi Mike,
I am back in Adelaide for a couple of days and have an few mins to work on the bike again.
I upgraded to 3.83 and took your advice re changing the ignition capture mine was falling edge and now needs rising to solve the transition from crank to run, however there is still an issue that I can't pin point, that is that the engine will only run as wasted spark and so will not run on the 2 cyl ( rear cyl ) Any ideas? I am thinking that it must be something to do with engine not getting cam sync.
Cheers
John

John,

I just upgraded my 3.76 code to 3.83 and I got unstable RPM detection with loads of resets. There was no wiring changes made, no sensor or wheel changes, I just boot loaded the new firmware into the v3 MicroSquirt.
It turned out the Ignition Capture Setting that worked OK as Rising Edge, now needed Falling Edge in 3.830

Don't know if this is of any use, just an observation.

Mike

[Norzilla]

Updated info , msq and datalog
Bike now running 3.830 code

Te engine starts on front cyl #1 and runs in wasted spark mode and will not convert to seq spark after the 8 cycl sync. It looks from the log that the sync status cycles from 1 to 3 to 1 over and over and each cycle it looses tach sync, with tach count returning to zero.

Could it be that the hall effect cam sensor has failed?

Thx

[24c]

Hi John,

If the Hall sensor has failed it will not produce a change in voltage, so you can easily pull it out, wire it on the bench, and move a lump of ferrous material over it, whilst watching the voltmeter.
Did you use a pull up resistor in the loom, if so maybe the joint has failed?

Mike
PS Don't forget the cam sensor voltage must be higher than 2.5V with a v2 MicroSquirt, but you can check this with a voltmeter. Also you can use Tachref.exe and "scope" the sensor outputs, but it is a pain having to load other software into the MicroSquirt.
PPS The other day I was using some obscure ignition software and they had this rather nice set up, which gives you all the info you require re triggering!
The red trigger wheel traces are at the bottom, the white columns are the 180º ignition or tach events

trigger_wheel_ignition_events_scope.jpg (119.62 KiB) Viewed 2828 times