Timing Map

[Tweasl]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and have a basic question..My project consists of a 4 cylinder air cooled motorcycle that I am going to provide ignition, fuel injection and lastly a turbo to the bike, in that order respectively. This will allow me to incorporate the MicroSquirt logically with all the parts required.

Is there a way with the tuner software to just use ignition and timing functions and then to progress to using the fuel tables once I have the fuel injection installed?

I have looked at the MS Tuning software and am not sure where I can turn each function on or off as to when I want to use it in my project.

Thanks for your help
Larry

[dontz125]

The controller really doesn't know (or care!) if there are actually injectors connected to the drivers. The drivers ground the injectors instead of powering them, so there's no risk of internal damage to the uS by running it without the injectors.

[24c]

...to provide ignition, fuel injection and lastly a turbo to the bike, in that order respectively....

Good sequencing
Reason if you get the ignition to work, sensors behaving properly with trigger wheel etc, it's relatively trivial to get the EFI to work, as dontz125 says, you just connect the injectors and add the fuel system, when you are ready. Obviously, because you are adding a turbo later, it might be beneficial to add a 3 bar MAP sensor from day 1, that way you don't have to change it later. For your ignition, you could use this for your vacuum advance etc, and as you have an aircooled lump, I might add a temperature related sensor for ignition tweaks too from day 1 as well.

Hope this helps, Mike

[Tweasl]

Ok cool...

Thanks for the info on the uS not careing about the injectors being there or not. I have the 3 bar MAP sensor and I will incorporate that initially as well as a temp sensor of some sort. Are we talking about air inlet temp or engine temp here. I'm thinking some sort of engine mounted TC or sperk plug ring TC for ignition tweeks as the engine gets hotter. What about using this for the engine fuel enrichment on startup as well?

Thanks Larry

[24c]

Initial thoughts, air inlet temperature for cold start info is normal, but for WUE I'd use an oil temperature sensor (equivalent of coolant). Obviously an under plug sensor should be the quickest acting, and probably better than one attached the cylinder head cooling fins, but I don't know how beneficial this would be for plain old WUE, as you could map oil temperature to the normal operating conditions.

However as you are turbocharging, then maybe oil temperature sensing wouldn't be responsive enough by itself, and under plug temperature sensing could be used to warn of likely detonation, and less influenced by external conditions, like better cooling in cold air, or poor cooling in warm air.

[Tweasl]

Yes you are correct and we have one other to contend with and that might be exhaust temps to monitor a lean condition under boost. At least initially till the timing and fuel are matched to the engines behavior with the turbo. It might be interesting to see the different exhaust temp curves through out the range of the engine and the turbo with both lean and rich conditions..

Larry

[24c]

...we have one other to contend with and that might be exhaust temps to monitor a lean condition...

Totally agree, I use exhaust temperatures for my aircooled engines individual cylinders just to check for a lean condition. However, best datalogged though, because you want to see the transitional phase...that is they start climbing as expected, but then go cooler, which is the danger sign.

[Tweasl]

..that is they start climbing as expected, but then go cooler, which is the danger sign.

Yes I want to do some data logging and exhaust temps would be interesting to monitor..Not sure about going cooler....

[24c]

...Not sure about going cooler....

Just a quick FYI taken from a weblink to illustrate the comment...

DETONATION DETECTION

"The other technique is a little more subtle but usable if attention is paid to EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature). Detonation will actually cause EGTs to drop. This behavior has fooled a lot of people because they will watch the EGT and think that it is in a low enough range to be safe, the only reason it is low is because the engine is detonating.

The only way you know what is actually happening is to be very familiar with your specific engine EGT readings as calibrations and probe locations vary. If, for example, you normally run 1500 degrees at a given MAP setting and you suddenly see 1125 after picking up a fresh load of fuel you should be alert to possible or incipient detonation. Any drop from normal EGT should be reason for concern. Using the "Tin Ear" during the early test stage and watching the EGT very carefully, other than just plain listening with your ear without any augmentation, is the only way to identify detonation. The good thing is, most engines will live with a fairly high level of detonation for some period of time. It is not an instantaneous type failure."

[Tweasl]

Thats good info as I would rarely see this where I work. We work on turbo applications and as such our cal maps from factory setups are usually pretty close. Grenading protottype engines is not a good thing. We use highly sensitive pressure transducers to record knock where I work and as such we can "Hear" it before any other method. Perhaps a knock sensor from any automotive ap would suffice to record knock and used in conjunction with EGT's..This would be ideal I think for the bike project I'm working on. I have not checked if the uS can use this channel and record data from it.