MicroSquirt.com read only forum (Jan.15,2018)

I'm looking into MS'n my 93 Kawasaki Voyager 1200.

My primary reason for doing so is simplicity on the road.
You might think a carburetor setup less complicated, but given the variences in fuel from one coast to the other, it's a pain to set your system up and then have to run e15 along the route and lose power and mileage.

The greater issue for me though, is that with my current carbs, I have to run additives to keep the carbs from corroding when I've filled with eth fuel and need to let the bike sit a few days.
The current cure for this is to run additives such as "Stabil" or others, and it's fine, but why not have a system that corrects for it's self AND can handle the fuel variables nicely? If ONE mpg could be gained, then all the better!

OK, all that to give you an idea on where I'm coming from atm.

What I'm looking to do is to add fuel inj, ONLY, to my bike. The current CDI system I have is happy just as it is.

What I want.
Happy with the various fuels I get from coast to coast
Altitude correction to avoid mechanical issues (baro ? baro + o2?..... sorry, the more I understand now, the easier to do and maintain)
Weather variables (will be running the air temp sensor and such)

What I plan (thus far)
FP and filter assembly from a 7xx series Volvo car (easy, self contained and VERY reliable, plus I have a few. lol)
Pressure regulator for same vehicle as it's already an "in-line" setup and is adjustable (not all adjustable for anyone reading, look in the vacc port for something similar to what you'd see on a trans vacc mod)
Injectors unknown (as of yet, I've not found a direct replace or easy replace set of throttle bodies, so I'll either be making / modding some, or perhaps even going with a common throttle body intake...... this requires more research [may be able to go with later concours or zx setup, don't yet know]).

Some questions
Being an in-line 4cyl that uses 2 into 1 exhaust per side, would I be best to inj as right and left bank with separate o2? Or better one o2 in the crossover?
Is there someone already selling assembled units with fuel only? If not, the construction isn't "that" big of a deal, just wondering.
Wanting a visual of the o2 during tuning and eventually in use, best to run a fully separate o2 and "jaw type" setup? Or can we yet read via the MS unit and a simple display that would weather well on a touring bike?

Basically, I'm looking for some help in advice toward getting started in the project. Again, I'd like to stick with fuel only.
Any heads up info greatly appreciated.

My experience (MS) is minimal and out dated (though I have read the manual, that's it) and stems from the very early days in adding TB injection to an old van, and later adding a "piggy back" system (actually we did two separate systems for additional fuel and methanol inj) on my old drag car. This was a VERY simplistic system and used only minimal inputs.

Thanks in advance,
Frank

PS: thanks to admin for assisting in getting my login back up and running! Many thanks!

Hi, didn't note if you mentioned your charging system, but the added circuit and fuel pump can challenge those alternators of low output. Some pump choices will mitigate the added consumption however.
For 02 monitoring, during tuning and riding I choose the Inovate LC1 product, with an analog dash gauge to view at any time. This works very well, readings in the various tuning programs agree 100% with the analog dash gauge, and despite some postings of challenges with the product or robustness, I've had no issues with it on for 3 seasons, sometimes in full on rain too.
Hope that helps, others no doubt can help with other questions.

Probably a 38mm bore sized throttle body will work for your bike with its 400cc cylinders? I wouldn't go any larger than that for your application (criusing, touring).

That's a lucky thing for you because 38s are easy to find as a good number of sport and super sport bikes use them. Maybe you'll get lucky and find that there's a bike out there with the exact same side-to-side intake port spacing as your Voyager (have you looked here? http://www.microsquirt.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6627). If you browse this listing you'll also see some 34mm and 35mm throttle bodies, mostly from 80's bikes though so they'd probably be much harder to find than a late-model super sports that all seem to use 38s these days. From the number of parts for sale on Ebay you'd have to believe that several GSX-R600s get wrecked and parted-out every week.

In case the Volvo fuel pump doesn't work out (I've already seen a couple of guys abandon car-type fuel pump ideas) you might want to look at the Suzuki LT-R450 Quadracer pump. It is an external (not in-tank) type that has very low electrical draw and I'm betting it puts out enough volume to feed a 1200. I've seen them used successfully on a 650 and a 750.

Thank you both!

The typical voyager 12's alternator is 35a, but I've already had mine reworked to 55a. Externally mounted TG!

Since the initial post, I've been trying to decide between my initial idea, using a return type fuel system, or the cycle type pumps w/ internal regulation and returnless fuel system. The charging system can handle the fuel pump, but if I do find factory tb units, it would be easier to just use the cycle system in full.

I've got to pop my carbs back off and measure the spacing to get a better idea of where to look, but yes, the carbs are 38mm.

Now headed to look over the lc1 / analog setup for some internet education

Either of you put serious 'per trip' miles on your converted bikes?

OH and had found a couple threads on tb specs and spacing, but thanks for the link........ MUCH better thread. Don't know how I missed it!

If it makes any difference, the stock setup was 97hp and mine dyno'd at 93 rwhp at it's best tune. Both of these should be lower than pretty much anything the throttle bodies would come off of.

Thanks again,
Frank

Hey Fred,

Ran my bike with M.S. at the helm over two seasons now, the first was lots of shorter "tuning" trips and then one roughly 1000km run. This year I've attended a couple of rallies where more "away from home" miles have accumulated (perhaps 2-3000kms). I had installed the LC1 the previous year so that I could compair how the Bing Carbs behaved, etc.
The only issues had to do with my programming, and some defective mechanical stuff (fuel return fitting plugged, as well a turbo exhaust mount gasket failed). However, the bike always parked itself in the gargage every time.
I like the return fuel circuits as it helps keep the fuel from heating, as well purging entrained air if that should happen.
I have no dyno confirmation numbers on H.P. gains on my project, with forced induction it naturally has increased. However I have gained fuel economy and expect I may have gained close to 10% relatively speaking.
Cheers,

Lorne

Thanks all!

An update of sorts:

I've went ahead and bought a honda in-tank pump, as I can add it to my current fuel sender quite easily (bike is low tank with F/P to carbs, stock).

I've started collecting inputs (any specific suggestions here?).

I've still got to determine whether to put one O2 sensor in the bike's crossover, or to run one in each side (two sensors) and run bank 1 /bank 2 (4cyl, 2 into 1 exhaust on each side with 2 crossovers between the sides. Any guidance?

Didn't buy my throttle bodies yet. I've ran across a scrapper that's willing to let me come out with my spare engine / carbs and match things up (trying to keep it as close to stock as possible). Once I settle in on a set or two that'll work, I'll probably end up buying a couple different sets and try for whatever requires the least modification. The nice thing is, He's willing to let me have 2 complete throttle body setups, plus boots, plus breather assembly, plus as much of the wiring as I feel like pulling, in trade for a spare 1972 Suzuki T250J "Hustler" oil tank I have just sitting here.

Hoping to get started on the actual conversion in Dec or Jan and have it ready to ride and dial in for spring.

The idea is still fuel only and retain the ignition via my current CDI.

Thanks R100RT!
Yes, I too prefer return systems. For the reasons you mentioned, PLUS, I can't even begin to guess how many injectors I've had to replace on non return systems as water would trap in the "fuel rail" and create rust / sludge (cars and trucks).

So, to sum up, some questions:
Single o2 in crossover, or twin and run 2 banks? Opinions and such, whatever.
Any common bits that tend to be forgotten about on the first trip to the scrappers? It's a 1.5 hour ride, so I'd like to "try" and grab everything at once.
Has anyone tried to use a second output to control the second set of "butterflies", rather than just removing them from units that have them? I haven't really researched outputs yet, just curious.

Thanks again!
Frank