Engine starts, runs a few cycles then dies

PSmurf78 · Post by **PSmurf78** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:15 pm

Hey guys,
Running into some fustration here.

Here's what I've got.

MSII on V2.2 mainboard. Using EDIS-4. The engine is a turbocharged toyota 4A-GE. Injectors are 440CC low impedence inj. SAW is at pin 36, PIP at 24.

To begin with, cranking takes a sec, then it fires. When it fires, it run for maybe a second, before dying. When I pull the plugs, they're wet.

I've also checked spark, and have been fine there. The spark looks strong.

I was wondering if it was due to a lack of PIP/SAW exhange, so I jumped the fuel pump. No change. Also, giving the engine throttle while cranking/running doesn't keep it from dying.

I've also verified the current settings with other people with the same engine, and they're inline with what others have.

My VE table is from Brent Picasso, and his turbo MR2. Ing table is from a friends 20V 4A-GE that's running on MSnS.

Basicly, right now I'm running out of things to check. I don't know where my problem is, aside from the car not actually running

What other common things have people found that have fixed thie issue of it running for only a few cycles then dying?

Bernard Fife · Post by **Bernard Fife** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:19 pm

PSmurf78,

This is usually caused by the afterstart enrichment being too low, and/or not long enough. So increase both by about 1.25 to 1.5 times, or so.

However, it also depends on the warm-up enrichments and VE table being close to right, so as you tune those you should return to the afterstart enrichment occassionally to retune it to match the other changes you've made.

Lance.

mops · Post by **mops** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:29 pm

can you somehhow confirm that spark is not at fault ???

I'd dump the ve map you are using and just use generate table (just to see whether the issue presists - this did wonders for me).

try to set your afterstart enrichment for different number of cycles and try to note whether it changes anything.

lastly, i'd remove turbo from the mainfold and see whether that would any difference....

PSmurf78 · Post by **PSmurf78** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:25 pm

I'll have to double check the ASE.

Anyways, on spark, I've put a plug on each wire, and cranked it and watched all fire. Plugs are new NGKs, and when it does start for that short time, it sounds good.

V3rm3lX · Post by **V3rm3lX** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:52 am

I'm experiencing the exact same problem with my ms2/edis setup I installed on my n/a Chrysler 4 cyl. I've been fumbling with it for 2 weeks now.

How big of an ASE value is typical? I've tried values from 0-50% over large intervals with no success. I just saw in some other posts that guys were running ASE's of 200%.

woh · Post by **woh** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:20 pm

PSmurf78

When it fires, what is max rpm you reach? Is it ever getting out of cranking mode? This is important to know to understand what settings might be a cause.

One possibility; If your cranking threshold is too high, and the cold start trottle setting let's in too much air, then the mixture leans out and dies before it takes into account the increase in air. Lowering the cranking treshold or reducing the cold start throttle setting takes care of that.

PSmurf78 · Post by **PSmurf78** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:53 pm

It'll usually run up to about 1200-1400 rpms before dying. What I'm wondering now is if the fuel pump is being cut. Previously, the car had a AFM, with also activated the Circuit opening relay (controls fuel pump, amoung others). I think that when I started removing wires, I somehow disabled this. Or at least thats my hope.

Also, on ASE, I've ran from 0% up to about 50%, doesn't seem to affect anything.

whittlebeast · Post by **whittlebeast** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:52 am

Anyone having starting/tuning issues please post a MSQ and a short datalog. Often we can find these issues in a very short time by just looking thru them. Things like ASE set at 115 abd not 15 or warmup set to 15 and not 115 Yep they are set very different.

AW

PSmurf78 · Post by **PSmurf78** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:10 pm

Alrighty... tried again tonight, no change, except for the fustration level

I'm adding my MSQ and a data log. In the log, you'll see it run up to about 1300 rpms, and then die off just as quick.

I've double checked again that each cyl has spark. Timing light flashes on all plugs. Power reaches the coil.

On the MSII side, I set the timing to 14 degrees. I've double checked the cam timing, and its right at stock settings. Even pulled the plug on cyl 1, and put a screw drive in to confirm that it was at TDC.

On the car, I jumped it so that the fuel pump was always running with the key in ign and run. Made no difference. I've moved the VE settings a bit to see if it made any difference, and nadda. Fuel pressure at the rail is 42 PSI

PIP and SAW are connected, and from everyting I can can read, are wired up correctly. I have the SAW signal at pin 24, routing through X11, and connecting to JP1-5. PIP is connected to the standard coil ign signal.

I'm not sure what else to do at this point. It seemed so much easier with a friends MSnS and getting that running.

PSmurf78 · Post by **PSmurf78** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:45 pm

A little more detail on what I've done:

I've double checked mechanical timing, and everythign is good there. I'v double checked power to EDIS and if I have spark on all 4, and I do. Visually, the spark looks strong. The plugs are all new too, NGK's.

I've also made sure all holes are plugged for everything after the TB. All lines are blocked, and I get a drop in manifold pressure when cranking and the short bit while running. It makes it into the low 70's kPa before the engine dies. I believe that it'd go lower if the engine would run just a little longer.

PIP and SAW appear to be wired correct, and installed correctly. I've already torn apart my MS unit to double check that. Based on LED's, injectors are firing.

I've got SAW running to pin 24, which goes to X11 (v 2.2 main board) which is then jumpered to JP1, hole 5. Ign(PIP) is set to the stock setting. Using the STIM board, everything reads fine.

VE table and constants seem inline. Ign is set to 14 degrees, just to see if it'll start.

Cranking the engine without plugs, the compression feels really good. I don't have the correct adaptor for my gauge, but it feels like there is way more then enough to get it to run at least.

Inj constants are setup for low impedence and are setup inline with my 440CC injectors. Fuel pressure is 42 PSI. Multiple grounds are running to the engine. This includes the 4 brown wire ground located near the fuel rail.

Injectors where cleaned up and tested prior to install. At 43.5 PSI, they all flowed within 1% of 43.7lb/hr which is about 460CC. With a pound or two drop, I should be around 440CC

I'm literally out of things to check. I don't think I've ever been so fustrated by a car! Everything appears like it should run, but it won't. It appears to get the priming pulse okay, but then nothing else. Voltage is 13.8, with a fresh battery that I've been keeping a charger on.