please analyze

[millhouse]

AE should be turned off right now, as should EGO correction.

Sounds like you may need more cranking PW, and possibly a bit more priming pulse.

Off as in all values set to 0? As far as the EGO correction goes...I guess I forgot to save the changes. I set the authority to 0 before with no effects. I assume that's what you mean?

[millhouse]

If you're talking about basee timing then that would be nice, but it's not the case. I usually have to play around with a bit of 'trial and error' to get the trigger angle right. Here's a thread that focuses on the MS-II but the process is pretty similar for MSnS-E in my experience... http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=12226

Hmmm...I guess I didnt quite understand. Off to do some research I guess.

[millhouse]

This is more cureosity, not exactly advice to millhouse.
I am wondering if you could set the cranking RPM very high... reasonably higher than normal idle. And make the engine run on the crank PW. What this would do is eliminate all fuel paramaters except the cranking pulse. Which would be acting like a idle PW.
Then you could crank a few turns, increas crank PW, crank a few more. etc.

The problem I see with this is, for my engine to start best I need a crank pulse about 4 ms but idle is about 1.5 ms. So enough fuel to get it to fire might then flood the engine. This is because the cranking map is much higher than idle map I supposed.

Later today when I have the computer in the car I will see If I can make this work...

Also, I don't know the code you are using but I see

Code: Select all

      <constant name="CrankAng" units="Deg">10</constant>
      <constant name="FixAng" units="Deg">-10</constant>
      <constant name="IdleAdv" units="Deg">-10</constant>
      <constant name="IdleAdvCLT" units="F">-40</constant>

Are the negative angles advace or retard? Or are you using a different ignition mode? I only know about EDIS.

And, if you can, make sure you are getting good voltage DURING CRANKING so you know the fuel pump, injectors and ignition have enough to work. My speculation here is that maybe unloaded you have enough power for a good prime pulse but the voltage is dropping too much from the starter load.

Sorry if I added more confusion than help

Hmmm....I could give it a go I suppose. If you get to it before I do...let me know!

As far as the Idle advance settings go....I have no clue. I dont ever remember setting those...so I assume they are default. I may have to do a bit of research on the subject.

[millhouse]

One more thing that I forgot to mention involves the Ford TFI setup. I used Scott Halls mod's to fire the TFI module as seen here... http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-tfi.html

Now...when I attached my pin 36 wire to the tfi pin 5 I bypassed the spout connector. So basically, instead of the regular spout wire going to pin 5, the megasquirt pin 36 now resides there. When I tried to just splice into the wire that went from pin 5 to the spout I had no spark.

Anyways....still researching on the crank angle jazz. Grrrrrr

Edit: After giving it some thought...all I was doing was eliminating the spout bypass from the equation. Anyways, I went back and hooked it up so the spout can be pulled and tried to start her a few dozen times with the spout in and out to no avail. Afterwards however the ground strap that I have going from the back of my heads to the chassis was smoking f'ing hot!!!

[FoundSoul]

AE should be turned off right now, as should EGO correction.

Sounds like you may need more cranking PW, and possibly a bit more priming pulse.

Off as in all values set to 0? As far as the EGO correction goes...I guess I forgot to save the changes. I set the authority to 0 before with no effects. I assume that's what you mean?

For EGO-- setting authority to 0 will disable it.

For AE-- Set your TPSdot threshold (V/s) to like 40 or so, that will disable this until you finish most of your VE tuning, then you can come back and tune AE.

[FoundSoul]

Hmmm....I could give it a go I suppose. If you get to it before I do...let me know!

As far as the Idle advance settings go....I have no clue. I dont ever remember setting those...so I assume they are default. I may have to do a bit of research on the subject.

Here's a thread that covers the MSnS-E ignition terms including the cranking timing settings in detail. http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=89604#89604

You may want to try 'Trigger Return' rather than 'Time Based', or play with the settings. Generally positive numbers = degrees BTDC within MegaTune.

[millhouse]

Here's a thread that covers the MSnS-E ignition terms including the cranking timing settings in detail. http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=89604#89604

You may want to try 'Trigger Return' rather than 'Time Based', or play with the settings. Generally positive numbers = degrees BTDC within MegaTune.

Thanks for the link…the information is greatly appreciated…however, after doing some research It seems that I am simply supposed to set the timing to 10* with the spout removed and use the settings shown for the msns-e tfi setup. http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-tfi.html

That’s it. Nowhere have I found any need to alter the trigger angle with a ford TFI setup. Hell, if anything else I should be able to pull the spout out and just have the timing locked at 10* to start (I've tried the already by the way). Am I missing something here?

On a side note I went ahead for "crap"'s and giggles set my cranking rpm high and was able to get the car to run on a bit more than normal. That's all it did really though…and it still showed no real signs of starting. I went ahead and disabled the EGO and set the TPSdot threshold high…and still nada. I screwed with all the warm-up enrichments again and other misc options on my "to screw with" list with no luck.

I'll go ahead a screw with the return based setting and perhaps bump the trigger angle up and see if it helps at all.

[FoundSoul]

Glad you're making progress-- most of my direction here has been somewhat general in nature as I've been running MS-2's on my TFI Mustang. Though we'll probably through an MSnS-E unit on it soon and play with that too...

[millhouse]

Glad you're making progress-- most of my direction here has been somewhat general in nature as I've been running MS-2's on my TFI Mustang. Though we'll probably through an MSnS-E unit on it soon and play with that too...

Hmmm…progress…..riiiiiiiiiiiiiightttttt. If I cant get it started today I'm going to have to inspect my injector wiring and throw in some new plugs. I've cleaned them once already (pain in the bum on a twin turbo mustang). Quite honestly I'm beginning to reach my wits end. After reading about others being able to start it up with the base settings it makes me wonder why mine is not even coming close to doing the same!

[millhouse]

And plugs it was. I guess my cleaning of the plugs wasnt as effective as a fresh set. I still did not get it to idle...but it's a helluva lot closer.

The setup is the same as the car 3 file with the exception of a couple of things. First off...I jacked the req'd fuel up to 25 and I fixed the timing to 10* btdc. I also set my standard prime pw to 4 and still had the tpsdot threshold set to 1.5. Below is a datalog with the setup described above.

Afterwards, I moved my req'd fuel all over the place and it came close to idling set to ~ 14 with the throttle slightly open (tpsdot now set to 40). I tried to "reset" fuel function and it didnt seem to make any difference. I also tried to raise the VE table values around idle but it jumps around so damn much I have to block off a large area with the same values. I'm still going to do some research (as usual) to try to get it to idle without fouling the new set up plugs. I would still however appreciate any input...as I am by no means out of woods yet.