Trouble With WBO2....Maybe?

[69 1/2 Six Pack Bee]

I am trying to set the VE table using the autotune (yeah, I got it to work) and I am getting alot of jumping around with the WBO2.
The gauge in MT is spending alot of time at 17.50% and it bounces around alot. WHen the autotune does grab a vertex it pulls it rich quite a bit. I have the EGO authority set at 10% and active above 1000RPM. The lagging is set at 80 but I have had it up and down with the same result. I have calibrated the AFR table for "Innovate 0-5" (I have an LC-1).
I never had any problem with MS-I, at least that I noticed before.

Is the O2 gauge in MT supposed to only peg @ 17.50%?
I made a datalog and I see the shift wildly as well.

What beside the WBO2 could be giving me the grief?
Here's a sample screenshot. I notice the PW does not change but the AFR and GEGO is all over the place.
Thanx,
Bud

[Jim]

I didn't have any luck until I set my O2 Authority down to 3% .

Leave the "Lag Factor" at 100 , no need to slow down the O2 , it
actually makes things worse to slow it down .

[Jim]

Also see this post :

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=17523&highlight=

and do a search of the MS Forums for AutoTune and also Wide Band 02 .

Your engine won't like it much if it's really running at 17.5 to 1 ,
sounds like you may have an O2 calibration problem or
an AFR Table problem .

You may also be having a problem due only to running your
O2 authority too high , this can cause wild oscillations in your AFR .

What do you mean by

Is the O2 gauge in MT supposed to only peg @ 17.50%?

My guage "pegs" at 19.4 in MT , do you mean that the pointer doesn't
go any higher than 17.5 to 1 ? , does the numerical read-out go higher
than 17.5 to 1 ?
Have you also looked at this in the "Real Time" display in MT ?

[69 1/2 Six Pack Bee]

What do you mean by

Is the O2 gauge in MT supposed to only peg @ 17.50%?

My guage "pegs" at 19.4 in MT , do you mean that the pointer doesn't
go any higher than 17.5 to 1 ? , does the numerical read-out go higher
than 17.5 to 1 ?
Have you also looked at this in the "Real Time" display in MT ?

I mean the MT gauge's full range of sweep is 10-19.4. When I am reading 4.4VDC at the O2 sensor pin on my relay board which, by the way, should have been indicating in MT about 18.8:1, (at free air I get 20.7:1--5.V indicated on Logworks and my DVM...thats okay) and I am only getting 17.5 on my MT gauge then this tells me something is wrong. Probably the voltage clipping is occuring because D11 was still in place and even though the nominal operating voltage of the O2 circuit is around 2.35V @ stoich, getting closer to the leakage rate of the circuit protection diode in the upper ranges could be causing a skew but I could not explain the wild fluxuation I was experiencing as was being indicated in my datalogs and was obviously screwing with my fueling calcs as well. So, I pulled it (the LC-1) and sent it back for a checkup.

Since this post I had sent the unit back to Innovate and they have since sent me back a brand new one. I also have a brand new sensor. I relocated the bung further downstream in the pipe and welded her up good and tight. I have the new LC-1 set (as I did initially) once again to 0=10 & 5=20, low impedance, 1/12th setting on both analog outs. I run the MS-II on analog 2 through a 470 ohm resistor and I monitor voltage with a digital display on analog 1.

I removed D11 entirely so now I won't get a voltage clip at around 3.5V and my MT AFR gauge will read (hopefully) the true indicated AFR.

The authority was set at 10% so that should not have caused that much deviation. Now as soon as I get my chip back from Glen I will try it out once again.

On a side note, I have also purchased 2 brand spanking new GM IAC units so lets see if the "funky" IAC characteristics I have been encountering since the day I switched over to MS-II magically disappear.

***fingers tightly crossed***

[Jim]

What board version are you using ?
I have a V-3 board and the schematic shows D-11 as being part of the
"Raw 12 to 14 volts input" spike clamp powering the whole MS V-3 board .
If you have a V-3 Board , D-11 has absolutely nothing to do with the O2
input or the operation of the O2 controller .

My Schematic shows no diode at all on the O2 input and a maximum
1000 ohm load that could be placed on the O2 controllers output ,
this completely negates the need for a resistor on the O2 input .
Maybe I'm missing something , do you know more about this ?

I can tell you that if you chose "innovate WB O2" from the drop down
menu in MT then it will read incorrectly .

AND

You must set your Innovate software to "factory defaults" .
(you can then change the options for how the output acts under
warm-up or problem conditions , I set mine to 2.5 volts)

This should result in the Innovate software graph reading :
0.045 volts = 7.4 AFR
5.0 volts = 22.1 AFR
These are the factory default settings from Innovate .

You must then go into MT and go to "Tools" , Calibrate AFR Table ,
then select "Generic Wide Band" ,
now fill in the boxes with the same Innovate factory default numbers
that you reset earlier (above) ,
this will insure that MT will display the correct AFR and be
as accurate as possible .
Remember to "burn to controller" and "save" the configuration .

Don't worry about the fact that the meter in MT only goes to 19.4 and
the Innovate software says 22.1 this does not affect accuracy ,
if you will notice the numerical display in the center of the gauge
will go all the way to 22.1
Also , don't worry about the exact voltage readings with your DVM .

What does 1/12th setting mean , I don't have access to mine right now .

I got a brand new Bosch Sensor with my Innovate Controller that was bad .
Innovate replaced it right away , but this makes me wonder if you have
setup your "Optional LED Indicator" , this is the only way to tell if you
have any "Trouble Codes" being reported by the controller , I had a
Code 8 , indicating a bad Sensor .

My IAC was really weird too ,
I'm still using the one I got out of the junkyard ,
but I finally got it adjusted to were it works fine now .
Let me know when you are ready to set yours up .

[69 1/2 Six Pack Bee]

V2.2 board. Search all of the topics regarding D11 and a WBo2. This should explain it better that I. And yes, I do have an LED w/ a N.O. PB hooked up to my LC-1. Nice to use for the frequent re-cal and to watch for any "codes".
...Bud

[Jim]

OK , I looked up the V2.2 schematic and D-11 is a Zener Spike Clamp
on the 02 input .

You are also running through a 1K resistor first , just like a V-3 board ,
you don't need an external add-on resistor .
The Zeners cut off slope is pretty sharp (not gradual) and should not
create a measurable load until about 4.8 or 4.9 volts ,
and then , it will be a really small difference ,
and in a range you probably will never use ( 19 to 22.1 to 1 AFR) .
It is extremely unlikely that the Zener will create a problem with 02 accuracy .
If you remove that Zener and you ever do get that odd spike ,
even as little as 6 volts , you can smoke your processor .
( MS-II has protection built into the chip )

My advice is to put the Zener back in , get rid of that extra resistor and
set everything up like I outlined in the previous post above ,
I'll bet it works perfect .