KLR 650 w/Ignition Project

[24c]

Drawbacks are not quite as much resolution, and possibly slop in the cam drive to crank relationship, but a MicroSquirt works off a cam trigger no problems, as it's one of the trigger wheel options you can select.

There is also a possibility you might be able to use the standard trigger, but only if another guy is successful elsewhere.

[mxrob]

MXRob: I've been riding this summer and cogitating on what I need to do for this project. I bought a good rotor off ebay. I've already got the TB with all the sensors. I haven't decided on a pump yet but I'm leaning toward a Harley pump. They're simple, in tank pumps with integral pressure regulator. They're also not built integrally with the through tank fittings so I could fabricate my own. I see on your thumper forum you finally ended up with a missing tooth set-up on the rotor/flywheel. I could press one onto the rotor I bought but it occurs to me? Couldn't I take a tooth off the cam sprocket and use that for everything? RPM's are just twice whatever the cam sprocket is . I'm sure the Microsquirt can multipy? What are the drawbacks to that approach?

ww

How is the stator output on the KLR? Hopefully better than the DR's measly 200 watts. That will be a possible issue with a pump that draws too much current. Not sure what the Harley pump would draw but I bet it's more than the R450's pump draws (about 1.2amps). Just something to consider. There is a stator rewire post on TT for the DR650 changing it from Y to Delta... lowers voltage slightly but current goes up about 60watts. The downside is at low rpm charging is not as good. http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showpo ... ostcount=1

Yeah, I went wasted spark for now because I wanted to get on with fuel while the riding season was still around. Gotta love that upper mid-west weather. VR2 was/is not being too friendly and I could not get a tach signal with my cam sensor. It's just as well. This gives me more experience with wasted spark fueling and straight Alpha-N. Not that I might not end up with straight Alpha-N anyway even once I get sequential working but at least I get some experience one way or the other. The bike is just running fantastic as it is... just the ignition alone is a huge improvement. The timing resolution of the 36 tooth wheel is exactly what this big thumper needed.

Yeah, as 24c said... you can run off the cam only. If the KLR is anything like the DR you will have a real time finding room for a cam target set-up. There is just not enough room to read the teeth of the sprocket... and you would be reading the side of the tooth. Not a reliable target. My advice is don't pass up timing resolution. Even if you could cram 36 targets on the cam somehow you'd still only have half the timing resolution. One target would be terrible... the µs would have to guess where the crank was/is over a 720 degree cycle. Timing at lower RPM's and during starting when the crank speed can change drastically in just one stroke would be unacceptable. You would be better off removing the stock flywheel target and going with a 36/1 ring to press on. That way you could use the stock VR. I plan on messing around with this after I get VR2 working... not that I'm unhappy with my hall gear tooth sensor and machined flywheel set up but a pressed on toothed ring using the stock VR would have been sooo much easier that the route I went and I'd like to post working alternatives for the guys thinking about doing FI. Maybe a few more riders will pick up and bare the FI cross.

[wrongwind]

MXRob: The KLR also generates 200 watts stock but I have a 285 stator on mine. There used to be a 400 watt aftermarket stator available but it had reliability problems so I don't know whether it's still out there. I'll check and see what the Harley pump pulls. I don't know about room for reading the cam sprocket. I'll need to pull the head but it appears from the pictures that there might be room between the sprockets and there's a chain guide/guard there that is a potential mounting surface for the sensor. Too early to know for sure yet. As soon as the the Northwest perpetual dark-wet winter hits I'll be working the project in ernest.

ww

[wrongwind]

All: I just bought a Ninja fuel pump off Ebay. It's an in-tank unit so I'll have to see whether I can get it in there but the Ninja doesn't produce any more juice that the KLR so powering it shouldn't be a problem and it has a fuel pressure regulator in it (45-50 psi). Based on what you guys are telling me? my best course of action would be to press a 36-0 ring on the rotor for the tach signal and knock a tooth off the cam sprocket and read that for spark??
MXRob: Which coil did you end up using?

ww

[wrongwind]

Whoops I read the manual closer and realize I need a one tooth cam sensor and a 36-0 crank wheel just like Rob originally envisioned. Either that or knock a tooth off the cam wheel and use that for both. Hmmmmm, back to the drawing board. That knocked off cam tooth is looking better and better.

ww

[mxrob]

There has to be one identifiable tooth for the tach signal on any pattern you use. 36 or?/1 crank for wasted spark... 36 or?/0 crank with 1 tooth cam for sequential... You can also use just a cam input but it must have a missing tooth just like the wasted spark crank wheel. The best set-up would be the 36/0 crank with 1 tooth cam for your engine IMO. But the 36/1 crank wheel is the next best option running Alpha-N. I believe the timing accuracy is key for our big bore thumpers. I'm not even sure MAP is going to be smooth enough to be useful for SD even with sequential on my bike. I hope I can at least use a blended Alpha-N/SD algorithm once I get sequential working.

[mxrob]

All: I just bought a Ninja fuel pump off Ebay. It's an in-tank unit so I'll have to see whether I can get it in there but the Ninja doesn't produce any more juice that the KLR so powering it shouldn't be a problem and it has a fuel pressure regulator in it (45-50 psi). Based on what you guys are telling me? my best course of action would be to press a 36-0 ring on the rotor for the tach signal and knock a tooth off the cam sprocket and read that for spark??
MXRob: Which coil did you end up using?

ww

Wow! 45-50 PSI? Is that the fuel rail pressure of the Ninja?

If you have any designs of making SD work on a thumper you will need to have sequential (non wasted spark) operational. So yes, a 36/0 crank wheel with a 1 tooth cam wheel would be ideal. You are going to add a 1 tooth target to your cam sprocket for the tach signal... not knock off an existing tooth. This target can be something as simple as one of the bolt heads that hold the sprocket to the cam. One of my ideas before I just decided to add a target to the side of the sprocket was to replace on of my two cam sprocket bolts with a flat head screw so the cam sensor would only read the one bolt head.

Here's my cam sprocket target:

[wrongwind]

Yeah I'll have to do something like you for the cam. My cam sprockets are center bolted so I don't have an offset bolt for a target. Perhaps it would be a cleaner signal if I mounted a magnet on the cam? Regards the Ninja fuel pump pressure: I got the numbers off a Ninja forum so I'll need to verify. First I have to figure out whether I can get it in my tank

ww

[wrongwind]

Well the Ninja pump is really nice but I can't figure out a way to get it in the tank and positioned correctly even if I cut a hole So I just bought an LTR 450 pump. I guess I'll be following MxRob to the letter. Why blaze a trail when there's a freeway already I found a potted SS target magnet bolt so my plan now is to tap a hole in my cam sprocket for it. That ought to produce a strong clean trigger from the proper Hall Sensor. It's almost modification season here in the Pacific NW so I guess I better order my Squirt now and start working on getting my 36t rotor ring gear made.

ww

[mxrob]

So you are going to use a straight hall sensor instead of a back biased gear tooth sensor... that should be interesting. How small do plaint hall sensors go down to diameter wise? I couldn't find anything in a gear tooth sensor that was small enough in diameter so I had to make my own.