MSII Help req

[twigmeister]

Hi guy's

I'm a little stumped and could use some advice here.

I've recently upgraded my MS1 to a MSII setup to gain better control of my large injectors.

While the car was on the MS1 setup I was using a base map provided and the car would start and idle, albeit very roughy and rich. I didn't do any tuning with this map (other problems with the car etc)

Now I've upgraded to MSII and put the same values into MSII as I prevously had in MS1 and the car isn't firing. It's trying, sometimes it catches but it dies immediatly.

I'm not sure what to change. I know my timing on the engine is out. If we adjust the dizzy while firing it sounds better and catches a little more but still will not fire. I've got the Trigger Offset set to 60 in MegaTune. This is the standard setting for my engine. My first job, once I can get the car idling will be to set the timing to 10 degrees BTDC on the car. In MS1 there was a setting that allowed you to set a fixed location before moving to a map. I've not seen anything similar in MSII.

The major changes that I have noticed in MSII that I couldn't find any settings for are ignition and Dwell. For the ignition I used the recommended settings for a Bosch 124 (Hall effect). The stock dizzy apparently uses a crank sensor as normal but has a Hall affect sensor as backup.

I've set the Dwell to 3.8 maximum charge with a 0ms acceleration value. This might be totally wrong, but in MS1 the maximum value for dwell that I ever saw was 3.8.

Another avenue that might be wrong is the ASE values. My car has no idle control system. It broke and proved impossible to get a replacement so it was removed. The stock ECU didn't have a problem with this even in winter.

Finally, one thing I have noticed is the the MAP sensor is reading 98.9KPa. This is normal evalavation for where I live, but my ve and spark tables are all starting at 20Kpa. I get the impression that most engines are pulling smaller numbers because they are fully closed. I've opened my PCV system to breathers (the engine has been turbo'd).

Because my engine is seeing nearly 100kps at rest, I've tried to make new VE tables that start at 90Kpa. My thinking being that it will always see at least atmoshperic pressure. MegaTune says no, and generates a table starting low but fills with with random values. This is no great problem anyway as I have no idea what HP and torque the engine will make so all I can do is guess.

This is way over my head, and progress is slow. If anyone's got any ideas it would be appreciated.

The engine is a Mazda KL 2.5 v6 engine. It's been turbo'd, is running an overbored TB and 880CC injectors. The fuel pressure has been knocked down to 22PSI constant, and the REQ fuel requirement is 4.4. The injectors are high impedance. I'm using MS-II, megaTune 2.25b717, v2.2 board.

My Settings File

[78Spit1500Fed]

...Because my engine is seeing nearly 100kps at rest, I've tried to make new VE tables that start at 90Kpa. My thinking being that it will always see at least atmoshperic pressure.

No, your engine will only see atmospheric at wide open throttle, before boost. With your throttle closed, the engine is pulling a significant amount of vacuum. As you open your throttle, that vacuum is relieved, until a point where it's at atmospheric. When your turbo begins to build pressure, then you'll see higher than atmospheric.

...MegaTune says no, and generates a table starting low but fills with with random values. This is no great problem anyway as I have no idea what HP and torque the engine will make so all I can do is guess.

You must have some vague concept. Start with stock numbers and then do your power adders... don't be concerned about anything other than idle right now.

...The engine is a Mazda KL 2.5 v6 engine. It's been turbo'd, is running an overbored TB and 880CC injectors. The fuel pressure has been knocked down to 22PSI constant, and the REQ fuel requirement is 4.4. The injectors are high impedance. I'm using MS-II, megaTune 2.25b717, v2.2 board.

So this is a TBI setup? (Injector in the throttle body itself?)

-Brian

[twigmeister]

So this is a TBI setup? (Injector in the throttle body itself?)

-Brian

Port setup. The injectors are after the IM, firing straight into the cylinder. 1 injector per cylinder.

[78Spit1500Fed]

22lbs of fuel pressure is very low for this type of injector. What is your reasoning behind fixing it at this pressure?

It sounds like you need to get your spark sorted out... you should see spark settings in MegaTune. Have you configured your install for MSII?

-Brian

[twigmeister]

22lbs of fuel pressure is very low for this type of injector. What is your reasoning behind fixing it at this pressure?

Originally they were 370CC injectors and wouldn't provide enough fuel. Being Nissan injectors it is possible to remove the metal cover from the pintle increase the amount of fuel they flow. This ups them to 880CC. I dropped the fuel pressure because 880CC is major overkill for my needs.

I've tested the injectors off the car. They seem to work fine at 22PSI.

The car will probably run 350ish BHP, and I'd like to see 500bhp later, so I overbuilt the injector system.

Originally the car had 220CC injectors. Even if I upped the fuel pressure to 70PSI the would only flow enough 230bhp. The 370 would do about 330bhp. Roughy estimates here. I do have indepth calculations at home.

It sounds like you need to get your spark sorted out... you should see spark settings in MegaTune. Have you configured your install for MSII?

-Brian

The ignition page? As far as I can tell it's right. I've set the various options in accordance with a hall sensor. I've not got any values for the Next-Pulse Tolerance settings and predictor algorithm. I was using the default settings IIRC. I'll double check later tonight when I get home.

[efahl]

Because my engine is seeing nearly 100kps at rest, I've tried to make new VE tables that start at 90Kpa. My thinking being that it will always see at least atmoshperic pressure. MegaTune says no

MegaTune is correct. MAP = MANIFOLD absolute pressure, not what is happening elsewhere, but inside the manifold. Once the engine starts the pressure will drop quite significantly, so the MAP signal will drop to 30-50 kPa (in most cases) when idling, and down to 10-15 during closed throttle deceleration. Your VE table needs to accomodate these pressures.

Eric

[mops]

Originally they were 370CC injectors and wouldn't provide enough fuel. Being Nissan injectors it is possible to remove the metal cover from the pintle increase the amount of fuel they flow. This ups them to 880CC.

I'm really interested in that procedure. Do you have any documentatin on the process ??? web links ??? I have the same set of injectors, I'd really like to mod them that way.

[twigmeister]

I'm really interested in that procedure. Do you have any documentatin on the process ??? web links ??? I have the same set of injectors, I'd really like to mod them that way.

I've had a few PM's about this as well. I thought it was common knowledge. I've got links on my home computer. I'll post them up here later for you all.

I didn't work this out BTW. Other people did I'm just riding their coat tails

[mops]

Not really a common knowledge - first time I heard about it.
I did some googling, and all tho I foung other people mentioning they did it, I coulgnt find a detailed enough description to acutally understand whats required.

However I did came across comment that 270cc injectors can be modified to ~570cc that way.

Thats really breaking news... 270cc and 370cc injectors are available around here... plenty of them and rather cheap, however larger than 450cc injectors are ridicolously expensive.

I'm definitely keen for further info on this mod.

[twigmeister]

okay, so I finally got to my computer.

The links I used are:

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=44984
http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701147295
http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701164851

The first one is probably the best because it has photo's.