Help getting 4g63 started

blueman803 · Post by **blueman803** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:07 pm

Hey, I am trying to install an MS1 v3.0 board in a 92 Talon with a 4g63 engine. It's a 2 liter 4 cylinder. Using MS to directly fire the coils.

I got it to start and idle around 300 at one point for about 4 seconds. I know I have spark and fuel working, so I believe it is the tune I have.

I included a data log of trying to start it. Any suggestions on what to try or change? What settings do you need to know to help?

I also included the MSQ file if anyone can look at this and help.

Thanks,
Brandon

SRoss · Post by **SRoss** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:49 pm

I can't really help you out, but I installed a MSII with EDIS on my buddies car. We had on/off problems for weeks because of how the factory system feeds current to the computer for a few seconds after the key is turned off and somtimes pulses it when turned on. We finally removed EDIS, rewired the MS and ran it off the tach pulse in a different configuration.

blueman803 · Post by **blueman803** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:34 am

Ok, the best I can do is get it to start up and go to 1400 rpm and then promptly die. I tried changing the AE up to rougly 60 % in 3% increments with no change. Tried the warmup enrichment increasing, still no change. Adjusted the throttlebody stop to allow more air in, nothing. If it will start and go up to 1400, obviously I have spark and fuel, the only problem is in the tune right? Any suggestions on how to go about it? I feel like the megamanual skips over the troubleshooting of starting. Maybe could get a more detailed approach, like if your car is backfiring its too lean or retarded, stuff like that.

SRoss · Post by **SRoss** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:45 pm

We can try to go through things one at a time.

How do you have your injector characteristics? The DSM has low impedance injectors which require a low "PWM Current Limit". My car has high impedance injectors and I have 100% in that value, while my friend DSM has something like 25% in that value.

blueman803 · Post by **blueman803** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:12 pm

I am using the dsm injectors, but I am using the resistor pack with it. So that would make them high resistance injectors right? Right now it is set at 75% PWM

SRoss · Post by **SRoss** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:34 pm

Yes you can use the resistor pack, however the V3.0 board can run low impedance injectors without modification (unlike the V2.2 board that needs the flyback circuit added.) In my opinion I would eliminate the resistor pack because I think it can cause slight inconsistancy. I have read about this somewhere on there before.

With that aside, I am going to email my buddy and see if I can get his .msq file. It is for MSII so you will have to open it and jot down the information then type it into your MSI .msq file. But it should help you out.

Hey I just downloaded your .msq file and noticed something. Is it similar to the file that another person has posted here on the forum? The VE table looks identicle. I had used his as a base to start my friends DSM and we had to make tons of adjustements. The main problem was ignition related, the settings were all wrong because we had wired it differently than he had.

How do you have your ignition wired?

blueman803 · Post by **blueman803** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:56 pm

I was using prez's file, since it was the only one I could find. I am using the internal VB921s wired like the 420A neon. It is connected directly to the coil packs. Thanks for your help so far.

dieselgeek · Post by **dieselgeek** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:11 pm

Prez's file should work for you.

We had this problem on 2 cars recently, and I tracked it down to power issues:

You can set up battery voltage logging, see how far it's dipping when the starter is cranking. I think the problem we had was too low power for the MS, and once the motor fired and power came back up, we couldn't get the motor to stay running. In one case we found a bad battery cable (lots of voltage drop) and the other, we rewired the whole car's grounds and new dual batteries and the problem went away also. Just something to consider, maybe try putting the battery on a good charger when you fire it up and see if that changes anything?

blueman803 · Post by **blueman803** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:53 pm

Hey, well its been two weeks and I am finally on spring break, so I can play with this car again. I took a datalog with battery voltage and included it. If you see anything that looks odd let me know.

SRoss, did you ever get that friend's MSQ files so I can compare?

SRoss · Post by **SRoss** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:20 pm

I aplogize, I never did get it. I had not seen him in a few weeks, when I called to ask for the tune he alread sold the car. He had a 7-bolt engine, it was a freshly built engine w/h-beams, forged pistons...etc. and after only 8k miles it started to crank walk! ouch!

I'm going to visit my parents tomorrow, I think I might have kept some of the scratch paper I wrote on while wiring his car. I'll look for it.